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Twyvva's Advance Tips 110: What Skill should I be raising

originally published by Twyvva and others, Vanguard Crafters forums · 1,702 words

From the Vanguard Crafters board, where the game's crafters worked the system out in public.

Twyvva — February 2nd, 2007, 09:02 PM

Recently, I have noted that several beginning crafters often ask what are these skills thingies and which ones should I be skilling up.

Now before I start getting all technical and wordy, I am going be presuming you are an intelligent and resourceful crafter and have perused Thorsen's most excellent crafting guide stuckied above (in the Crafting guide topic) or @ http://www.crimsonwind.net/dload.php?ac ... file_id=15

(also other crafting guides can be found in the stucky topic which I haven't checked out yet).

There are 3 main skills associated with both refining & finishing tasks:

Station Skill: for actions not dealing with either a tool or a utility. Also it acts as a check skill against complications popping up.

Utilities Skill: Your primary progress & quality movement skill. Of course each use requires expends a utility in the stack which is loaded into table.

Tools Skill: Also moves both progress and quality (once you get appropiate skill level). Tool(s) also aren't loaded into table and can be changed out for more effective versions.

Okay. For the purposes of this discussion, coming right out and saying from level 1- 7ish. It doesn't really matter. Let all the skills raise as they might. You will probably have high Utility with tools somewhat behind and fairly low station. Once you get to about lvl 7, lock Utility and start bringing up the other two skills to match or exceed Utility. From lvl 7 to about 12ish your best bet is to keep the 3 skills fairly close.

Once you start getting better tools and clothes (small digression, main towns & cities once again have a quality crafting equipment vendor where better than starting tools & clothes can be bought), its time to decided on how you really want to craft. Play style is going be beyond the scope of this tip, but here are some thoughts:

Station- I want to repeat THIS is the check skill for complications. It will not stop all complications (especially if the RND dislikes you). Also some recipes seem to have a complications that will always show up. For those that want to keep complications minimal (there is always going be a chance), you will want to keep this maximized (or higher with appropiate clothes).

Utility- Currently (In My Humble Opinion) this best skill to let slide once you hit amatuer level. Utilites don't have an effectiveness rating. What this means is that they do a fixed amount movement. While at lower levels, this is pretty good. Scaling it doesn't do well. (Note: expect to see in a few months the return of other utilities with better fixed effectiveness or possibly an effectiveness rating).

Tools- Tools do have an effectiveness rating and in the coming months will be easier to get better tools at lower levels (as current top crafters upgrade/sell off their tools). Also as you get higher levels some really nifty actions for tools open up.

Well, thats it in a nutshell.

**** Added Section 3-28-2007 ****

Seems relevant to help decide about skills:

When dealing with complications, Station Skill will first act before any other by the complication check. Once you have a complication, first decide if it needs to be removed. If it does need to be removed, you will have a choice of at least 1 remedy and usually more as you gain skill.

(Note all remedies will have Problem Solving attribute + a Skill (+ Tool effectiveness if Tool Skill based)).

Cost & Effectiveness: So far (apprentice level tailor), I have seen only two levels of remedies. 35 AP for Moderate Level Effectiveness and 50 AP for High Level of Effectiveness. I do imagine that there is a Low Level effectiveness rememdy for 20 something AP.

So what does Effectiveness mean? As with tools, its the possible amount of progress against the complication. Currently, you cannot consistantly 1-shot a complication with a moderate effectiveness remedy. (I am going qualify this with doing WO of near current crafting level and with most (near) balance types of build. A specialized skill build might be able to consistantly 1-shot complications with a moderate effectiveness remedy based on the specialized skills/attribute).

High Effectiveness will usually at least progress halfway to 1-shoting a complication. Moderate effectiveness depending on skill will normally progress 1/3 to 3/4ths thru a complication (if your skill is high can do about 9/10ths thru complication).

*** Note: 1-shot(ting) a complication is removing a complication with just 1 use of a remedy.

Station: Station Remedies will normally be of Moderate Effectiveness with some High Effectiveness. Depending on build, you will get a station remedy to a complication about 1/3rd to 2/3rds of the time.

Utility: Probably the Premier Remedy Skill. Even if low skill, you will see utility based remedies at least 1/2 to 2/3rds of the time. Usually will offer High Effectiveness remedies (at 2 utility cost). Of course, if you don't have the utility asked for already loaded into table you cannot choose this option.

Tools: The King of Moderate Effectiveness Remedies. Not sure if I have ever seen a High Effectiveness tool-based remedy. Once you start getting two remedies per complication, they will usually be 1- High Utility based remedy and 1-Moderate Tool based remedy. Note: Once again, you will never consistantly 1-shot complication with moderate effectiveness (with noted qualifications). But you can consistantly two-shot almost all complications with a moderate to high tool skill build.

Otani — April 30th, 2007, 08:01 AM

http://www.crimsonwind.net/dload.php...ile&file_id=15

OK so I read the above guide with an eye to the section about Builds (page 19)

Talking about the target for Station skills to be 25-35% of points for your level depending if you desire defensive-balanced-offensive crafting as far as complications, I'm having a hard time clearing this up in my head.

From that guide..."In the text below a build of the form 30/35/35 build would be a balanced build with 30% of base skill points in station, 35% of points in utility and tool skills before gear effects are added. When gear is added or removed your station skill is returned to the

calculated target value and remaining points are distributed between utility and tool skills."

I'm not seeing the value then of starting with ungeared values and then looking at geared values.

I'm currently crafting level 16. That gives me 384 points in refining and finishing skills to divvy up (16x24.) So if I want a defensive build, say 35% to station skills, then .35x384 is 134 (rounding down.)

So it seems like what my current station skill is when ungeared is irrelevant because the guide says that you then compensate for gear worn to return the value to the target. So in the end, I would be aiming to have my station skills at 134 with gear on...right?

Or am I reading this section wrong...

I'm 16 artificier/minerologist. 16x24=384x.35=approx 134 target station skills.

Shaping (refining station skill) = 120 ungeared, 152 geared.

Sculpting (finishing station skill) = 115 ungeared, 147 geared.

Soo...is the guide suggesting I should reduce the 152 and 147 to 134 and free up points, or is it saying I should be raising the 120 and 115 to 134?

I get 2-3 complications per workorder, sometimes more.

bmc0607 — April 30th, 2007, 11:26 AM

At high level, I'll say that my build was (before I cancelled I was doing very well):

SKILLS:

I put most of my points in Tools/Utilities, to get the actions. Most of my clothes were Station, to make up for the missing points there. I had enough Tool/Util clothing to give me the points in Station to get some of the better actions (like the +qual finish). With clothing, my Station skill was highest--this is to make up for the attributes:

ATTRIBUTES:

Problem solving, 10 above level. Reason/Finesse, at level. Ingenuity, below level--balanced by the higher Station skill. This gives me an overall even spread of skills/attributes, but makes Station higher on skill and lower on attribute--because the skill (comp redux) is more important than just having more effective actions.

Can't log in, but I'll estimate what my skills were at, say, 41:

Station 425

Utilities 410

Tools 415

Prob 420

Ing 402

Reas 409

Fin 410

I had a great balance of actions, I could get done what I needed done, and I could one/two shot any complication but "effectiveness penalty."

Twyvva — February 4th, 2007, 11:19 PM

Okay.. though its another topic (and one I don't fully understand because the formula isn't known), modifing results (poor, fair, moderate, great, excellent) are just that.. they modify the base damage which is a combination of your (unit damage * skill)/(attribute - difficulty) (guessing on formula here and unit damage is tool, station, utility).

Basically what I am saying here is that station and utility are fixed at the base damage they do. While tools can be upgraded and base damage changed (currently only tools can). As for how you have the levels of skill compared to each other.. post 11 will be up to you and how you want to deal with complications vs progess & quality.

Also it may help to think as attributes as raising the possible maxium movement and skills & tool effectiveness as raising the minium movement. (this I may have gotten wrong, if so, please correct me).

Ky — February 5th, 2007, 04:16 PM

I have to agree with the OP.

Station Skills do more for keeping complications at bay than anything else, and I've experimented with all even, all focus on tools, or Utilities or Station, and station is a breeze, the rest seem secondary to that.

My personal formula moving forward is that I will assign 1/2 the points alloted each level just for the station, and the other 1/2 split between Tool and Utility.

flurg — February 3rd, 2007, 03:02 AM

Great guide Twyvva, any chance you'd post how you keep your Station/Utlity/Tools rationed out? I.e. Station maxed, Utlities low, Tools medium.

Tarya — March 29th, 2007, 01:40 AM

Aye I have same experience as you with the 'upgraded' utilities.

Thus I tend to save them for the work where I need to get pristines.

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